Originally by: The Ubernomicon

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Here is a nice read about Icelanders and their terrible business sense: http://www.economist.com/finance/displayStory.cfm?source=hptextfeature&story_id=12382011

Highlight from the article: "IcelandÆs households also racked up debts amounting to 213% of disposable income. Britons and Americans owed just 169% and 140% of disposable income respectivelyùfigures that make them seem almost sober by comparison."

What do you expect from people that believe in elves and pile rocks in their yards for the elves to live in.

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Originally by: Jesters Knight

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CCP would have been better off fixing bugs so that people want to play, not the one that makes them want to come back dispite there crappy bugs.

-4 accounts

(and no, you cant have my stuff, I already have someone who i am going to sell stuff to cheap if I do. hey, i may want to come back someday but i highly coubt it)

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Originally by: Catherine Frasier

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Originally by: Trupplupagus

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Simply put, even if you don't really care, there's no reason whatsoever to SUPPORT CCP in this matter.

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Sure there is: it simply makes sense. "Ghost training" was an unintended consequence of the way they used to calculate skill point accumulation and handle inactive accounts. As more and more people exploited this little loophole it gave them incentive to finally get around to fixing it.

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Originally by: FemmeFatal

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Originally by: Haldane Fisher

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Originally by: The Ubernomicon

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Here is a nice read about Icelanders and their terrible business sense: http://www.economist.com/finance/displayStory.cfm?source=hptextfeature&story_id=12382011

Highlight from the article: "IcelandÆs households also racked up debts amounting to 213% of disposable income. Britons and Americans owed just 169% and 140% of disposable income respectivelyùfigures that make them seem almost sober by comparison."

What do you expect from people that believe in elves and pile rocks in their yards for the elves to live in.

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So we're paying for Icelandic ignorance?

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I was under the impression that CCP paid employees in ISK which is currently equivalent to shit but collects USD and Euros, so unless they have reacted by giving employees massive raises they should be making additional profit. The ISK collapse is pricing their Icelanding employees on par with outsourcing computer work to India, except without having to actually move anything.

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Originally by: Catherine Frasier

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Originally by: Haldane Fisher

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the only reason people get by with eve's skill training system is the fact that you could train out of subscription.

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Speak for yourself.

I've never taken advantage of "ghost training", never felt the need or the desire and am quite pleased to see it go. (And hopefully to see the folks who take advantage of such things go with it.)

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Originally by: Zareph

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Originally by: Duckbar

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One funny thing to do if you really and truly are done with the game, is if you just paid up using a real life credit card, and not a timecard, ask for a refund. If denied the refund, charge it back. Easy as pie, it's an internet charge, and possibly even an international one.

It's all spelled out in their merchant agreement that they can't bait and switch.

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been there done that on my brand new power of 2 alt, debating doing it on the other two accounts that I just resubbed within the last week. All cash transaction, no isk.

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Originally by: Divideby0

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HAHAHAHHAAHHAHA...

I really don't see the problem here. "So you no longer get something you are not paying for." I sense a whole lot of people are ****ed that they can no longer cheaply maintain their "capital alt" fleet.

$15 is not that much money. Cable television costs at least 2-3x that in the US. In some places, that's three beers. Drink three less beers next month and you can keep your alt training. (hey, if you pay in advance, its cheaper.)

Can we have your stuff?

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Originally by: Catherine Frasier

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Originally by: Cosy Ceaon

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Originally by: Catherine Frasier

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Originally by: Trupplupagus

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Originally by: Catherine Frasier

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3)Most people never, ever, ever take advantage of this "wonderful feature". Many of us, in fact, consider it extreme metagaming: cheating, to be blunt.

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So you are a CCP employee.

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Nope, I just agree with them.

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because they pay u btw u win sufficient money one month to get 5 times drunk in iceland ?

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Sweetheart, if it makes you feel better to think that nobody could possibly disagree with you unless they're paid, then go right ahead. It's puerile but don't let that stop you.

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Originally by: Khwalik

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Just somethingelse to chew over....what about all these CCP outings I've heard about over the years to nice 'exotic' locations for staff.....How much did all that cost?

This isn't about 'ghost training' people it's about accountability and CCP I think has blown a big fat wad of blanks on a fat chick.

just my .2 isk worth

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Originally by: Zinnn

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chaktil a ban would mean they'd have to be paying attention to this thread....

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Originally by: Annaphera

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Originally by: Trupplupagus

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Originally by: Catherine Frasier

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Originally by: Trupplupagus

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Originally by: Catherine Frasier

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3)Most people never, ever, ever take advantage of this "wonderful feature". Many of us, in fact, consider it extreme metagaming: cheating, to be blunt.

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So you are a CCP employee.

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Nope, I just agree with them.

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It is not a minority opinion that CCP is a bad company, and this issue proves they're out to get your money, even if ghost training doesn't effect you on this issue. The options (and there really are just two) are that you are a bad, suckup sycophant without empathy for your peers, or you are, in fact, related to or employed by the company.

You are not credible, even if by some disgusting twist of fate you're the real deal. Shoo

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Wow. Just...wow. Take off the tinfoil hat, hmm? CCP just closed a loophole that was letting people improve characters without paying for a sub. Yes, it was hurting their bottom line. Yes, they probably realized there would be backlash, and possibly even enough to hurt them some financially. True corporate fat-cats would NEVER risk taking a hit if there was a chance it might hurt more than not fixing the issue. I kind of take that to mean I should assume they are telling the truth about their motives, rather than as a cue to invent a conspiracy and insult people who are trying to voice their opinions.

What makes you so sure that they aren't telling the absolute truth? Can you find ONE thing that makes it look like they counted on ghost training to bring people in? Can you find an instance of it being used in an ad, enticement, sales pitch, or anything other than as a fact in some guide to how the game was working at the time? Can you find any promise that, contrary to disclaimers that game play can change at any time in any way, this was something that was eternally promised to players? I can't, so I guess I still can't understand the outrage that this was done. I CAN understand some anger at how it was done, but I still think that has gotten excessive. Like Catherine, it seems, I'm forced to chalk a lot of this up as people getting ****ed they're losing what amounts to a way to cheat the system.

I can't say I find your rants very credible. Shoo! (See how immature that sounds?)

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Originally by: TU144 TEPPOPNCT'CMEPTHNK

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typical, CCp nerfs the GTC's, then wonders why theres a run on the GTc's just b4 the nerf.
then they wonder why everyone suspends thier accounts, so they spam everyone to try to find out whats going on....
some ppl respond that RL is issue, others that there are game issues...

ZOMG!!! fleet battles problems is fixed...
then credit crunch hits, ppl are tooo busy tryin to feed themselves to play games and have left thier accounts dark training in the meantime.

so ccp sees a spike in income, then a drop off, and low usage of GTC's as lots go dark.

ccp thinks...hmmmm we need to pay for exotic fishies for the promo-uber tank (and no ovour doing a charity gig of nivana - smells like teen spirit in the tank Simply wont cut-it)
[though im sure we'd all like to see that on the site or at the fanfest.

then the userbase is hammered by fixing a long term game mechanic that was ticking over in the background for 5 years,
hmmmm thinks....... Bob must have all thier cap fleet up to titans by now ;p (oops time to nerf the opposition)hehehehe

isnt it time to nerf the titan fleets (more than just a little bit) the game is unplayable against titans if ur in a ickle ship....(of even a BS)

yet again CCP4tW

(we luv u really).......................honest

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Originally by: Catherine Frasier

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Originally by: Delos Harriman

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Originally by: Catherine Frasier

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As to "empathy for my peers", my peers don't metagame, don't cheat and don't emoragequit over a policy change. Those who do, while they may be my fellow Eve players, are not my peers, and for them I have very, very little sympathy. To be blunt: screw 'em.

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Well, we've had a documented instance of CCP devs cheating (documented by CCP, no less), so why spend time defending a group that (by your own definition) you don't consider your peers, and you have no sympathy for?

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That was vile, reprehensible, and has long since been addressed. It's over. That means we get to stop whining about it now. Cool eh? If you don't think it was handled well enough then what exactly are you still doing here?

This decision has nothing to do with that incident. Even if you have a video of some Dev tossing puppies into a woodchipper it doesn't change a single thing about this particular decision.

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Originally by: Annaphera

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Originally by: Haldane Fisher

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Maybe the part were it was listed as feature and not a bug?

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The player's guide just said that was what the game did. Where, exactly, was is listed as a feature?

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Originally by: Catherine Frasier

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Originally by: Haldane Fisher

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Maybe the part were it was listed as feature and not a bug?

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That was merely descriptive and certainly doesn't mean it was an intended mechanic. Did you really expect that the guide would say "Oh yeah, and we screwed up the skill training stuff with inactive accounts, please pretend we didn't." ?

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Originally by: Catherine Frasier

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Originally by: Haldane Fisher

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Originally by: Catherine Frasier

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Originally by: Haldane Fisher

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Maybe the part were it was listed as feature and not a bug?

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That was merely descriptive and certainly doesn't mean it was an intended mechanic. Did you really expect that the guide would say "Oh yeah, and we screwed up the skill training stuff with inactive accounts, please pretend we didn't." ?

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That's pretty weak, even for a sycophant

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Right, like just calling me names is such a powerful argument.

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Originally by: Ava Baby

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Edited by: Ava Baby on 14/10/2008 04:33:43
Like many people, I have more than one account. Yes I've used "ghost training" for a number of reasons. However, I do not relay on it.

1) I just don't have the money to re-up an account so I set a long skill until I do.

2) I'll be gone for extended periods of time. (ie travel)

3) See #1

It is a nice feature to have and I'm sad to see it go after so long.

But on page 27* does it really matter?

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Originally by: Zabaticus

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It's a very simple and beautiful concept; No pay, no play, then no training. Let's hope they kill the other "Ghosts" with malice.

Zabaticus

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Originally by: Liranan

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Originally by: Triksterism

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So, for those of you who are for this removal of 'ghost training' -- Why? It's not like you can't do it all the same as the rest of the players in EvE. Anyone can ghost train so perhaps I fail to see the 'imbalance' -- Not to mention ghost training really isnt hurting anyone, it simply isn't squeezing as much money as possible out of everyone but it DOES make A LOT of people happy (or at least content) and hence, they stay subbed.

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Age? I'm 30, what does that tell you? And I'm against Ghost Training. I know what you mean but you will find people of all ages for and against it, though from your post I get the hint you're saying younger players are more prone to be for it than older players.

Ghost training does cost CCP money because you pay for one month, set skill, disable account, log in three weeks later, change skill, disable account. A one month time card could last months this way and, I agree with CCP, it is not good for business.

I will repeat myself again. The problem of the majority of the posters is not about Ghost Training but about the lies spun by CCP.

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Originally by: Alexander Ronay

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Originally by: Liranan

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Originally by: Triksterism

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Ghost training does cost CCP money because you pay for one month, set skill, disable account, log in three weeks later, change skill, disable account. A one month time card could last months this way and, I agree with CCP, it is not good for business.

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I wasn't aware that it worked that way. I was under the impression that game time was used in 30, 60, or 90 day increments. If it is true, that you can split up 30 days like that, then maybe it does need slight tweaking.

But not like this.

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It doesn't work that way... or if it does its the dumbest thing I've ever heard and CCP have themselves to blame.

Originally by: Alexander Ronay

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Originally by: Carsidava

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I'm going to keep posting this until someone from CCP gives answers.

Nope, sorry. This doesn't wash.

If you disable skill training for inactive accounts, why aren't you also disabling market orders from inactive accounts? Why aren't you also disabling RP accumulation from inactive accounts? Why aren't you disabling dividend payouts to inactive accounts?

Why are only skill points being hit?

Sorry CCP, this is an entirely unsatisfactory answer.

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I think we have our answer. It's a phrase, that has 2 words in it. It starts with an "F" and ends with a "you."

CCP's silence speaks volumes.

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Originally by: Exxonett

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Originally by: PsychoBones II

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Originally by: Exxonett

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I have the solution!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

As per the laws and regulations of the u.s. any and all false advertisements are subject to fines imprisonment and or lawsuit. You come after my wallet I come after yours. This is not a threat it is a promise. A foreign country based corporation selling their product in this country does fall under this topic.

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Typical American solution. Sue everything.

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My intention is not to sue but to display the fact that they can be sued. If they fix their lies and stop trying to rob people this really isn't an issue then. However if they choose to continue on this chosen path there seem to be enough people to make it costly.I have never sued anyone as of this point and as have used it as a threat to get my point across. When you mention their wallets they listen to what you have to say just a little bit more.

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Originally by: Annaphera

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1) CCP actually admitted it's partly a cash flow issue. I don't think they were prepared for this level of backlash

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Originally by: Catherine Frasier

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Originally by: Liranan

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Originally by: Catherine Frasier

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That's pretty weak, even for a sycophant

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Right, like just calling me names is such a powerful argument.

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You are an idiotic fanboi. Shut up until you're ready to reveal who you actually are. I don't care whether you're in my corp, alliance, the GBC or whether you're a Goon, in MM, RZR or are a CCP employee. When you can stop being childish and hiding bhind some year old NPC character come back and post.

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Originally by: Serenity Steele

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Surely 30 pages in 24hrs is a record on the forums?

I really can't understand what all the whining is about, considering that the minimum period of game time you can buy is 1 month anyway.

That must mean keeping an account alive 50% of the time - and for what? So you can sell it at a later date for profit?

So you're $ cost for ISK purchase has declined. My heart bleeds.

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Originally by: Lysander Kaldenn

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You pay for a game... so you play a game... why should you benefit from lapsing payment? Pay for the game or quit. No one will miss you if you leave. One less baby crying on the forums.

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Originally by: Catherine Frasier

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Originally by: Haldane Fisher

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Originally by: Catherine Frasier

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Mandatory posting in oog forums under the byline of an ig character is one of the dumbest things CCP has done, tbh.

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You don't like making people accountable for what they say in game or out?

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That's one hell of a stretch. People are accountable in-game for what they say in-game. (Smack = dec) People are accountable in-game for what they say in in-game forums. (Where post-with-your-main is required.) People are accountable out-of-game for what they say in out-of-game forums. (Forum moderators enforce forum rules).


What I am opposed to is YOU deciding what I should or should not say about the game and enforcing that by in-game actions. My right to speak here as a paying Eve player should not be curtailed in any way shape or form by some other player simply because he doesn't agree with me.

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Originally by: INF Wonderwoman

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Originally by: Triksterism

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BEHOLD! THE GHOST TRAIN!

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Thank you Ghost Train!!!

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Originally by: Joskken Inx

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I'm adding this to my sig since it seems a few people think we're somehow making up 50 pages of this over "nothing but a bug"

"Skills continue training even if you are logged off or if your account is inactive (in the second scenario you can't change skill training, though)."

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Originally by: Mia Aires

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Fairer place? Fair EVE?

ghost corp ceo
ghost order
ghost research
ghost manufacturing
ghost ...

Nice understanding of FAIR.

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Originally by: Squirrrel

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Might be better for everyone to just login on one system and see what happens.

Not our fault if the servers we are financing can't handle it.

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Originally by: Rasik Argimater

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Stuff

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Originally by: Richard Aiel

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Edited by: Richard Aiel on 26/10/2008 06:14:24

Originally by: Cassius Hawkeye

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Edited by: Cassius Hawkeye on 25/10/2008 17:39:04
*Intermission*

Just poasting to say I fully support the removal of ghost training. 'Free' time isn't fair to those that pay continuously to train ALTS, and LONG SKILLS.

*continue whining now*

Ty!

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look! Devs not only play they post on alts too
Oh how am I not surprised that the dev is in BoB too lol
Irony

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Originally by: Sandy Minge

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Originally by: Haldane Fisher

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It's strange that more members of bob are not crying out about this. I'm not sure if they've been told not to talk about it, what I can say is that on the bob corp forums I have access to there is 0 discussion.

As for bobdev comments...pure tin foil I'm afraid. And unfortunetly for Cassius...he just doesn't get it.

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LOL, get a clue Dewd - there is a 3 page discussion on the forums with ppl disagreeing with CCPs direction!

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Originally by: Sandy Minge

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Edited by: Sandy Minge on 26/10/2008 15:48:25

Originally by: Haldane Fisher

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Originally by: Sandy Minge

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Originally by: Haldane Fisher

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It's strange that more members of bob are not crying out about this. I'm not sure if they've been told not to talk about it, what I can say is that on the bob corp forums I have access to there is 0 discussion.

As for bobdev comments...pure tin foil I'm afraid. And unfortunetly for Cassius...he just doesn't get it.

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LOL, get a clue Dewd - there is a 3 page discussion on the forums with ppl disagreeing with CCPs direction!

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What part of bob corp forums do you not understand?

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yeah sure pick out the raisin by refering to a single corp forum while not mentioning the main forum - guess your not as informed as you want people to believe

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